The following is a transcript of an interview with Filippo Grandi, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, which was broadcast Sunday, March 6, 2022, in “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Christina Ruffini in Poland, thank you. We now want to go to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi. He is in a refugee camp on the Ukrainian-Polish border. Good afternoon, High Commissioner. You have said that this is the fastest refugee exodus since World War II. What are the numbers now? What are you watching?
THE UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSION FOR REFUGEES FILIPPO GRANDI: To date, we have surpassed the terrible mark of 1.5 million refugees in 10 days, mainly from Ukraine to five neighboring countries. Most here in Poland, where I am now. And if I think about the last few decades, I can’t think of a faster exodus of people to Europe. Not since the end of World War II, I would say.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you see about the state of people in these shelters? What do they need?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: Men of military age, who are 18 to 60 years old, cannot leave the country. They are recruited and have to stay there to defend their country. So they are mostly women, children, the elderly, many people with disabilities and above all, scared, traumatized. They are people who until a few days ago led a perfectly normal life. And in a matter of hours, everything falls apart. And they have to be on the road. Very difficult journeys, very traumatic journeys through war-torn Ukraine, to the border and now here they are safe. But of course, they are separated from their families. Unsure about their future. So I would say that trauma and anxiety is the most defining feature of the moment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Can civilians leave the country safely? How many people would be refugees but are displaced and at risk right now?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: These statistics are impossible to define precisely because we do not have access. We are, you know, UN agencies and the Red Cross are within the country, but they can’t move everywhere. That is why the UN and the Red Cross are trying to negotiate a safe passage to the most affected places. But so far we have not achieved the necessary guarantees and respect for the ceasefire. Only in this way can we send convoys, bring supplies and, if necessary, take people out. But people are also moving from other places even less affected. Sometimes they move before it happens because they know it can happen at their location. So this is an extremely messy situation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who’s firing on these safe steps?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: Well, there are bombings by Russian forces, and that’s what people are most afraid of. Yesterday I was in Moldova and other neighboring countries. People were coming from the city of Odessa, where there is still no bombing. But sirens have sounded throughout the day and people are so scared that they just leave home, especially people with children. They want to take them to a safe place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, High Commissioner, you’ve been dealing with these record numbers of refugees around the world even before that happened in Europe. What happens now that you have this massive influx? What does the UN need? I mean, what kind of resources do you need?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: Well, let me tell you the obvious. First, we need to stop this. We need this to stop because without the war stopping, people will continue to leave the country. One and a half million is difficult enough to manage, even for the relatively stable and prosperous countries of Europe. Imagine, however, that if we go higher and do it, we will not hesitate if it does not stop. Now for people who are on the move. First, we need to get more supplies within Ukraine. And that’s why we need at least some quiet areas where we can offer help and then here for the mass of refugees. It takes a lot, you know, of all kinds of relief supplies. We need cash to help people. We need logistical support. European countries have the means and the organization. But if that number grows, we will need more international support. And at some point, if people stay here for a long time, there will have to be other countries that offer places to take in refugees, even outside of Europe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tell me about it because in 2015 there was a massive political backlash when Syrian refugees entered Europe. There are charges of racism and discrimination. Poland, just last year, tried to build a wall to prevent refugees from coming from the Middle East, Africa. What’s different now and what’s going on with these refugees?
COMMISSIONER GRANDI: I think there is, of course, a colossal emergency right now. There are certain geopolitical factors at stake, but I look to the future. And you’re right, we’ve been fighting to convince Europe to take it, to open its doors to more people, not to push people back. But I believe that this crisis, and I have said it before, carries an important message that anyone can become a refugee. Very suddenly. And that any country can become a front-line refugee host country that needs the support of others. We want: Europe is fast learning to work together in many ways in response to this crisis. I hope that this joint work will apply to all asylum seekers in Europe, not only what is happening now, but also in the future.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you very much, Commissioner, for your time today and good luck to you. We’ll be back in a moment.
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