In this show “Face the Nation” moderated by John Dickerson:
- Rep Adam KinzingerRepublican of Illinois
- David Martin and Michael Morell
- Bob Woodward and Robert Costa
- Will Hurd, former Congressman and CIA officer
- Maria Yovanovichformer US Ambassador to Ukraine
Click here for full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”
JOHN DICKERSON: I’m John Dickerson in Washington.
And this week on FACE THE NATION: Russia’s assault on Ukraine continues in a second month, with no end in sight.
And will the January 6 Committee cite the wife of a Supreme Court judge?
The Russian army has ravaged cities and killed thousands in recent weeks, and is now announcing a new phase, a possible withdrawal from the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, where its advances have stalled.
President Biden spent three days in Europe, gathering NATO, visiting troops and refugees, aiming at Vladimir Putin.
(Start VT)
JOE BIDEN (President of the United States): For God’s sake, this man can’t stay in power.
(VT final)
JOHN DICKERSON: The White House said President Biden was not announcing a new effort to oust Putin.
But if this was confused, the president was clear.
(Start VT)
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Don’t even think about moving an inch from NATO territory.
(VT final)
JOHN DICKERSON: They’ll get the latest reports from the region. And we will receive analysis from former CIA Acting Director Michael Morell and our David Martin.
We will also have information from former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. And we’ll talk to Will Hurd, a former CIA officer who served in Congress for six years.
Then: New text messages reveal how the wife of a Supreme Court judge aggressively pressured Trump’s White House to cancel the 2020 election. We’ll talk to reporters who told the story, Robert Costa from CBS News and Bob Woodward from The Washington Post.
And we will hear from Illinois Republican MP Adam Kinzinger, a member of the committee investigating the January 6 assault on the capital.
Everything is ahead of FACE THE NATION.
Good morning, and welcome to FACE THE NATION.
President Biden landed this morning in the early hours of his trip to Europe, where he presented the ongoing case to Western allies for help in Ukraine and sanctions against Russia.
However, this morning, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy accused the West of lacking courage, making another exasperated request for more fighter jets and tanks.
We want to start in Lviv, Ukraine, where Russian rockets rained yesterday, just a few hundred kilometers from where President Biden was speaking in Poland.
CBS News foreign correspondent Imtiaz Tyab is there.
IMTIAZ TYAB: John, good morning, well, here in the historical center of Lviv city.
And it really seems like life is back to normal. But life is anything but following those Russian attacks on a fuel tank just two miles from here. Now, almost immediately after the attack, we could see dark plumes of smoke rising into the sky and later we learned that at least five people were injured.
Russia’s Defense Ministry has now confirmed that it used long-range missiles and cruise missiles in the assault, saying that its target was a plant that was used to repair anti-aircraft systems, radar stations and tanks.
Now, the missile attack comes less than a day after Russian generals said the Kremlin should “shift the focus” of its ground offensive on Kyiv to prioritize what Moscow calls the liberation of the controversial region. of the eastern Donbass.
And while it does not yet appear that Vladimir Putin is changing his approach to the war in Ukraine, what is clear is the Kremlin’s military miscalculations, as Ukrainian forces continue to fight with an intensity that few expected.
Now, here in Lviv, which has seen two more strikes nearby in so many weeks, it has been a kind of sanctuary for the millions of Ukrainians fleeing violence.
And this attack with Russian missiles is causing great concern that could affect the humanitarian support that so many Ukrainians have received if the Russian attacks continue here in Lviv – John.
JOHN DICKERSON: Imtiaz, thank you.
CBS News foreign correspondent Debora Patta is in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv with this report.
(Start VT)
DEBORA PATTA (voiceover): What Russia has no apparent military strategy is offset by boastful videos like this, which claim to show its cruise missiles heading for Zhytomyr, 100 miles west of Kyiv .
But for the Ukrainians at the receiving end of this constant bombardment from the sky, it is hell on earth. The coastal city of Mariupol has been decimated, reduced to twisted steel skeletons and the empty shells of apartment blocks.
The hasty burials of the dead provide a fleeting dignity. The 100,000 people still trapped have no electricity, very little food and spend their nights in icy basements.
Running away from the city carries a deadly risk. Many cars are attacked.
Victoria Medinska (sp?) Defied death, escaping with her family to the city of Brovary, on the outskirts of the capital. All he has left of his life before the war are beautiful photos and videos stored on his phone.
VICTORIA MEDINSKA (Ukrainian internally displaced person): The city is badly destroyed, I have nothing left, I think.
DEBORA PATTA: Seven-year-old Masha (sp?) Remembers everything.
Are you scared?
MASHA (7 years old): Mm-hmm.
DEBORA PATTA: I’m sorry.
And although Mariupol has borne the brunt of the Russian invasion, it is not safe anywhere. In the north, Kharkiv residents are preparing for the worst, wrapping their beloved monuments to protect themselves from bombing.
Ukrainians have faced much tougher resistance than Russia expected, determined and challenging.
(VT final)
DEBORA PATTA: But Kharkiv has every reason to worry. A nuclear research facility has been attacked. Ukraine’s nuclear control agency says the fighting makes it impossible to assess the damage – John.
JOHN DICKERSON: Deborah Patta for us in Kyiv, thank you.
For a detailed breakdown of where the fight is in Ukraine right now and where it might go next, we would like to welcome CBS News National Security Correspondent David Martin and Michael Morell, former interim director. and CIA and national security deputy. contributor here on CBS.
Good morning to both of you. Thanks for being here.
MICHAEL MORELL: Good morning.
JOHN DICKERSON: David, I want to start with you.
Where are we in this invasion later this week?
DAVID MARTIN: Well, we’ve heard what the Russian Ministry of Defense has to say about Eastern Ukraine’s priority.
You have to consider the source there. They have not been a true stellar source. But on the ground, they are seeing some evidence that the units that, the Russian units advancing on Kyiv, have begun to dig into defensive positions, basically crouching against all these Ukrainian counterattacks.
And at the same time there is an increase in the level of bombing in eastern Ukraine. Now, this does not mean that Vladimir Putin has given up taking the capital of Kyiv. What I think it means is that they have to find a battle plan that works.
JOHN DICKERSON: That’s right. Right.
DAVID MARTIN: Your original battle plan to advance on these multiple fronts, north, east and south, just didn’t work.
So maybe they’ll try one front at a time here. But while they are supposedly prioritizing, they are also sending reinforcements to Ukraine for the first time. And they keep this bombing of cities.
Look, we started this war by overestimating the Russians. Now we must not underestimate them.
JOHN DICKERSON: That’s right.
Mike, understand that. Stopped, maybe just to reload?
MICHAEL MORELL: So the first phase, for me, was the right blitzkrieg in Kyiv and replace the government with a puppet government, and Ukraine becomes a vassal state. The Russians lost the first phase.
We are now in the second phase, in my opinion. And the second phase is to dig defensively, as David said, fortifying himself to protect you from these Ukrainian attacks. They are actually laying – the Russians are laying mines, which is a defensive maneuver.
And they want to be in these fortifications, to be able to launch their mortars and rockets and missiles into Ukrainian cities, in an attempt to break the Ukrainian will, because I think they can keep moving forward. This is what they are trying to do now.
And, as David said, you don’t underestimate them, do you?
JOHN DICKERSON: That’s right.
David, is there any reassessment of the Pentagon or even of the Russians that the Ukrainians have fought harder than they suggested? As you mentioned, they are nailing each other because the Ukrainians have had these counter-offensives.
Is there any way that NATO allies and others trying to help the Ukrainians can take advantage of this new position of the Russians?
DAVID MARTIN: Well, to begin with, I think everyone underestimated both the will and the ability of the Ukrainians.
They have taken these weapons, these anti-aircraft tank weapons, these aircraft weapons, and they are simply making better use of their systems than the Russians are making of their own. They are overtaking them on the battlefield.
But here is a second war, which is the attacks on the cities, which Mike mentioned about trying to break the will of the Ukrainian people. And really the result may depend on what happens first, if the Ukrainians force the Russians to a total stop …
JOHN DICKERSON: That’s right.
DAVID MARTIN: … on the battlefield, or if these bombings break the will of the Ukrainian people.
JOHN DICKERSON: So Mike, what David is suggesting here is that it’s Vladimir Putin’s pain threshold. How tall is that? Or is it the survival instinct of the Ukrainians?
So what? How long do you think this will take?
MICHAEL MORELL: So we shouldn’t underestimate Russia’s willingness to accept the pain, should we? They have shown throughout their history that they are willing to accept a lot of pain to get a victory, right?
In the Second Chechen War, the combat phase lasted 10 months, followed by the insurrection phase for eight years. In Syria, its attacks on Syrian cities took a long time. So they are willing to take their time here in a way that I think we do not understand in the West.
JOHN DICKERSON: So if they’re willing to take a long time, give me an idea of some of the pressure this coalition is putting on …
MICHAEL MORELL: Yes. Yes.
JOHN DICKERSON: … that President Biden is trying to convene.
MICHAEL MORELL: Then everyone faces pressure, right?
Therefore, Putin faces the pressure of economic pain at home, long queues, empty shelves. It looks like he’s back in Moscow in the 1980s. He faces the pain of dead soldiers returning home. Russian mothers don’t like that. So this is your pain.
The Ukrainian pain is the death and destruction of his country. Western pain is sanctions. They can’t do business with Europe. I talk to many companies, both American and foreign. And the question they ask me is, when will we be able to do business here again, right? So there is this pressure.
And then there’s the cost pressure for consumers around the world in terms of wheat prices, in terms of energy prices, right? Here everyone faces pressure.
JOHN DICKERSON: That’s why Biden is there in Europe trying to keep things together.
David, President Zelenskyy has asked for help from NATO, help from anyone, planes, tanks. Will he succeed?
DAVID MARTIN: Well, he won’t get the planes in the short term.
JOHN DICKERSON: That’s right.
DAVID MARTIN: And that’s basically a risk-benefit calculation that NATO has made.
They just don’t believe that 20 …
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