The following is a transcript of an interview with former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson which aired on Sunday, April 10, 2022 on “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: As we enter the peak migration season, the CDC plans to lift title 42. This is a pandemic-era policy that restricts migrants seeking asylum, which could lead to a large increase in the border. For more information, please contact Jeh Johnson, Secretary of Homeland Security under President Obama. Good morning to you.
JEH JOHNSON: Good morning, MARGARET.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When we hear from the administration that they could see up to 18,000 migrants a day crossing this border, it seems incredible. Senate Democrats have said the administration is unprepared. Do you think they are?
JOHNSON: MARGARET, officials at DHS, the department I once headed, have told me that they are preparing, that they are ready, that there are resources, transportation for this, this level of migration to our southern border . . That did a lot- No doubt these are big numbers. DHS, I think, has learned lessons from the past and has grown in the past, even when it was in charge. But even so, the numbers at this level are hard to handle in communities from the southern border to the southern border, Catholic charities that volunteer, hard to absorb such numbers. In almost any scenario, it is a challenge for the Border Patrol, for the ICE, to process and properly monitor these people. And obviously the Biden administration is paying a political cost.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
JOHNSON: So my recommendation would be that, and I know President Biden believes that, we need to address the underlying causes in Central America for such increases. And I was glad that in this year’s budget proposal there is a billion dollars to try to address this. We started this in the Obama administration, and we need to continue with the successive administrations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s right. And this is a long-term solution. But, I mean, when it comes to how the Biden administration planned this, this pandemic-era restriction, Title 42, will be removed on May 23rd. It coincides with the high migration season. Why was there no coordination within the administration to maybe, I don’t know, push it for a few months?
JOHNSON: Well, Margaret, I’m not at the table anymore. I am no longer in the Situation Room of these discussions …
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you would have tried to coordinate it, wouldn’t you?
JOHNSON: Well, I would have argued that, first of all, there is obviously an acknowledgment that this is an extraordinary authority. It is a public health authority in case of communicable disease. It had to end for a while. The courts were increasingly skeptical. I would have argued that we should keep it in place only a little longer until perhaps in July, when these figures tend to decrease in the hottest weather. You are right that March, April and May are usually the peak seasons of migration on our southern border. And so DHS will have a challenge. And the other day I heard the current secretary say that they currently have something like 7,000 a day. This is a high figure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned the political problem that this has caused for the administration. There is now a bipartisan group of senators trying to delay the administration’s plan to lift it by about 60 days until the surgeon general rescinds the public health emergency COVID. Does that sound like a reasonable compromise? Is it something you would endorse?
JOHNSON: Well, Margaret, legally, I don’t know if a compromise can be reached. Section 265 of Title 42 is a CDC authority. It is up to the CDC to invoke or suspend it. This is how the law is read. Therefore, if, in the opinion of the director of CDC, the public health authority, this extraordinary authority should be lifted. This is their prerogative, hopefully in consultation in the interagency process with the Department of Homeland Security to ensure that DHS is prepared to handle these numbers. Again, I would argue that we keep it in place only a little longer during the summer until the numbers tend to decline.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Should there be compulsory vaccination at the border? I mean, foreign travelers to the United States landing at an airport have to prove it.
JOHNSON: I think that’s something that should be taken into account. Obviously, there are big challenges to trying to achieve with this volume of people. But it is something that needs to be taken into account.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned tackling root causes again. Both President Biden and Vice President Harris last year also publicly called for a slowdown in migration. I want to play for you what they said in 2021.
[SOT PLAYED]
MARGARET BRENNAN: So why haven’t we heard anything like that now? Is it because the administration took so much heat from the Progressive Democrats?
JOHNSON: MARGARET, I can only tell you about my own experience dealing with this very, very difficult subject. I’ve learned that you have to repeat a message dozens and dozens of times before people start listening to it. The long-term lesson, however, is that migration is a market-sensitive phenomenon. It reacts strongly to news in the market of information on the improvement of the application and the decrease of the application on our southern border. We can repeat these messages over and over again, and we should. But as long as the underlying conditions exist, poverty and violence in Central America exist, the figures will always return to their long-term trend lines. There is no level of defense that can counteract the powerful thrust factors in Central America. This is something I know President Biden believes in. We talked about it extensively when I was vice president, and I was secretary of national security.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Jeh Johnson. A pleasure to have you back on the show. We will be back soon.
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