The following is a transcript of an interview with Kurt Volker, the former NATO Ambassador and Special Representative of Ukraine, which aired on Sunday, March 6, 2022 on “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Now Kurt Volker is with us. He was a former US envoy to Ukraine and a former US ambassador to NATO, and now joins us. Thanks for coming to the show. You have been arguing for a no-fly zone over Ukraine. NATO says this is off the table. The United States, by no means, of how, of combat troops because President Biden says this would trigger World War III. Why is he wrong?
FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO NATO KURT VOLKER: Well, I think there are ways to do that that mitigate those risks, if not eliminate the risk, but mitigate the risk of a direct conflict with Russia. First of all, I think we have to acknowledge that the civilian casualties and the horrible scenes we just saw will get worse. They will not improve. There will be mass airstrikes against Kyiv, against other cities, and it will be absolutely devastating. So if we can avoid it from a humanitarian point of view, I think we should try. And the way I would recommend it is to make humanitarian purposes clear. We limit our geographical reach to Kyiv and western Ukraine, so we do not approach the Russian borders. We make it clear that we will only fire if it is fired at any ground target. We’re not there to hit anything. We make it clear to the Russian military that we will not attack their planes or helicopters as long as they stay out of the area. And then there are rules of engagement that our Air Force and others are very good at, escorting people out of a no-fire zone if they are not shot. And I think we apply all these things to try to create a safe space for civilians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So other former ambassadors to NATO have publicly argued that this is unrealistic because you should take out Russian systems not only in Ukraine, but also long-range ones in Russia. You go to war like that.
WITH. VOLKER: You don’t because that leads us straight to the fight. Russia does not want us in the fight, and I think we are letting Putin get inside our heads and dissuade us from doing things to protect civilians, instead of taking into account that he does not want the US or other countries to support Ukraine. .
MARGARET BRENNAN: So if the ultimate goal, diplomatically, is to stop the carnage and stop the war, how do you get Vladimir Putin to back down? Who can really do that? Because the Germans tried, the French and the Israelis. No one has been successful. The US is talking to China. Who can do that?
WITH. VOLKER: The Ukrainian people can do that. The Ukrainian people are there. They are determined. They are fighting. We are lucky not to be able to fight Putin or try to stop him. The Ukrainian people are ready to do that, and that is why it is essential that we give them all the support and help we can.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you say it’s going to get worse, I mean, the French president has indicated that that’s basically what Vladimir Putin told him. Tell me what you are: what stage the audience should be set for. Because NATO is already saying that bombers are being used. Listen to incredible accusations from the Ukrainian government about what is happening. U.S. intelligence says lists of people are being drawn up to be sent to the camps. Is this a scenario where you can see someone sitting and negotiating a way out?
WITH. VOLKER: Not at all. We must understand that Putin is determined for a military victory. He wants to destroy Ukraine, behead the leadership. It doesn’t matter how many victims this causes, what happens to the civilian population. This is a messianic mission in which he finds himself. That’s why you have to stop. And again, we can do things to help the Ukrainians. I am very happy to hear Secretary Blinken say that we are now giving the green light to planes from Poland to Ukraine. We should provide some of our own A-10 aircraft that we are ready to store. There are trained Ukrainian pilots who use them. We should look for more means to get more support quickly. What the UN High Commissioner has just said is that they need quiet areas within Ukraine. In western Ukraine, there are areas where there is now no Russian fighting. We could try to help create those quiet areas to provide assistance. Many more things we could be doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is there political will for that? You served in the Trump administration. Former Vice President Pence said Friday that “there is no place in the Republican Party for Putin’s apologies.” It’s a little extraordinary that I should say that.
WITH. VOLKER: Yes, yes. We have heard it in our … in our media. We’ve heard that from some politicians here. But I think you’ve heard of Adam Schiff, too. There is incredible bipartisan unity in Congress, the Senate and the House, and between experts and national security personalities here in the country. Everyone sees what Putin is doing. No, there is no support for this. Full support in Ukraine. The only question is how far we will go to help Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was the former president an apologist for Putin? That’s what the vice president was saying.
WITH. VOLKER: Well, I’m not going to judge. We heard what he was saying. You know, he said Putin was acting smart and intelligent. I mean, this is not the message you want to send. The message you want to send is that you are acting irresponsibly and inhumanly, killing people in an unwarranted war, and we should stand by the Ukrainians to help them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you, Ambassador, for joining us today. We will be back soon.
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