The following is a transcript of an interview with White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan that aired on Sunday, March 13, 2022 on “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let’s go now to the White House National Security Adviser, Jake Sullivan, good morning, Jake.
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCILOR JAKE SULLIVAN: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are many advances to be made with you. I want to ask you about these reports that an American journalist has been killed in Ukraine by Russian forces. Do we know what the consequences would be for Russia to kill an American?
SULLIVAN: Well, that’s obviously shocking and horrible, and I just found out when I went on the show here, so I’ll check with my colleagues, we’ll check with the Ukrainians to determine how this happened and then measure and execute the appropriate consequences as a result. I will only say that this is part of what has been a blatant aggression by the Russians, where they have attacked civilians, attacked hospitals, attacked places of worship and attacked journalists. And the United States has been working hard to hold Russia accountable by imposing the largest-ever sanctions ever imposed and by providing military assistance to Ukrainians in order to curb Russian advance. And, obviously, we will follow this latest development very closely and respond accordingly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake, there are reports of white phosphorus use in Ukraine, reports of chlorine gas. How imminent is a chemical weapons attack in Ukraine?
SULLIVAN: We can’t predict a time or a place. All we can say is that there is a growing level of rhetoric on the part of Russia trying to accuse Ukrainians and the United States of potentially using chemical or biological weapons. And that’s an explanation, Margaret. This is an indicator that, in fact, the Russians are preparing to do so and try to blame elsewhere, and no one should fall for it. That is why we have come out so resolutely to the UN Security Council and elsewhere to steal from the Russians the ability to fix it on anyone other than themselves. And, as the president said on Friday, if in fact the Russians use chemical weapons in Ukraine, they will pay a severe price.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Overnight, the President of Poland has said that the use of a weapon of mass destruction would be a game changer for NATO. President Biden seemed to say that military force is completely off the table in Ukraine, even if a weapon like this was used. Is this the case?
SULLIVAN: We are consulting with our allies and collectively communicating directly with the Russians. Sitting here in front of you today. I will not go beyond what President Biden said on Friday, which is that the Russians would pay a severe price if they advanced with chemical weapons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But none of the sanctions you have imposed so far have stopped Putin. So is there a red line for the administration here in terms of a humanitarian catastrophe that would change the president’s calculation? Is this a game changer?
SULLIVAN: The use of weapons of mass destruction would be a shocking additional line that Putin is crossing in terms of his assault on international law and international norms. Their assault on the human rights and human dignity of the people of Ukraine. But ultimately, Margaret, the premise of your question, which is, well, sanctions haven’t stopped Putin, so they don’t work? I think we need to look at this in two ways. One is, have we imposed heavy costs on Russia for its invasion of Ukraine? And the answer is yes. And second, we have been able to help the Ukrainians defend themselves from such attacks, to prevent Russian forces from taking over large cities, including the capital Kyiv? And the answer to that is yes. And part of the reason Putin is resorting to the possibility of extreme tactics such as the use of chemical weapons is because he is frustrated that his forces are not advancing. And one of the reasons they do not move forward, the central reason is the courage and skill of the Ukrainian people, but they receive the support of a substantial amount of military assistance from the United States and our allies.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake from … you said that the consequences have been communicated to Russia, but according to my report, I have heard that there is no presidential contact, no contact with the Secretary of State. Military leaders in Russia simply do not pick up the phone. Have you personally communicated this to anyone in the Russian government?
SULLIVAN: I will not dwell on the nature of our communication with the Russians. I will also say that not only the United States has channels for the Russians, but many of our allies and partners, and we coordinate closely on what we communicate to them, how and on what topics. And that will continue, but it will continue through private diplomacy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So yesterday, Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister said that convoys carrying supplies of Western weapons are legitimate targets. That sounds like a threat. US policy is to help the Ukrainians defend themselves. How safe are you that you can keep these supply lines open?
SULLIVAN: We believe in our ability to continue to send substantial amounts of military assistance, weapons and supplies to the Ukrainian front. We have been successful in doing so so far and we believe we have a system in place that will allow us to continue to do so, despite Russian threats. And we believe that these weapons are making a significant difference in helping the Ukrainians defend themselves. Of course, we are only helping to provide the tools. The courage, bravery and skill of these fighters is ultimately what is making the difference and the courage, bravery and skill of ordinary Ukrainian citizens, to stand up and defend their towns and cities is what makes the difference, and we will continue to support them. them in their effort to ensure that Ukraine is a strategic failure for Vladimir Putin.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So it seems like yes, you can keep helping to keep supply lines open. What we saw in the last few hours was an attack in western Ukraine, near Lviv. And that is about 15 kilometers from the border with Poland. Jake, this is getting very close to NATO territory. Is the US policy that any attack on Polish territory or airspace, intentional or not, is an attack on NATO?
SULLIVAN: The President has repeatedly made it clear that the United States will work with our allies to defend every inch of NATO territory, and that means every inch. And if there is a military attack on NATO territory, it would provoke the invocation of the fifth article, and we would put all the strength of the NATO alliance to respond to it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But is this an accidental stray shot?
SULLIVAN: Look, all I’m going to say is that if Russia attacks, it shoots, it shoots at NATO territory. The NATO alliance would respond to that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s been a very busy hour for you. I am also keeping track of what is happening overnight in Iraq. Iran’s Revolutionary Guard has now claimed responsibility for launching ballistic missiles into northern Iraq at a U.S. consulate location. Are you condemning Iran for carrying out this attack?
SULLIVAN: Of course. We condemn Iran for carrying out this attack. We are still gathering information on exactly what the goal was. What we do know at this time, Margaret, is that no American facility has been affected. No American people were harmed. But the United States is absolutely clear, we will do whatever it takes to defend our people, our interests, and our allies, and we are in consultation with the Iraqi government and the government of Iraqi Kurdistan, in part to help them get the missile. defense skills to be able to defend themselves in their cities …
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the nuclear deal isn’t dead?
SULLIVAN: This is not the first time Iran has done that … Am I sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Isn’t the nuclear deal you’re negotiating with Iran dead?
SULLIVAN: As things stand right now, they are … the various negotiators have returned home to their capitals and we will have to see what happens in the coming days regarding diplomacy around the nuclear deal. One thing I will say is that the only thing more dangerous than Iran armed with ballistic missiles and advanced military capabilities is an Iran that has all these things and a nuclear weapon and President Biden is still determined to prevent Iran from gaining a nuclear weapon.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake, I have to let you go. Thank you for your time today. Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.
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