The following is a full transcript of an interview with Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla that aired on Sunday, March 13, 2022 on “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Here’s the president and CEO of Pfizer, Albert Bourla. Welcome to Face the Nation.
CEO of PFIZER DOCTOR ALBERT BOURLA: Thank you very much for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it’s good to have you in person for this conversation. You know, last week, the number of deaths worldwide by COVID reached six million people. And yet here in the United States, the last state is raising its mask requirement. Where do you think we are in this recovery?
DR. BOURLA: You know, I think we did much better than while things could have been done, but obviously we’re not where we all want to be, which is that COVID is behind us. I think right now we have some very meaningful tools in our hands so that we can slowly return, I think, to our normal lives. But we must understand that COVID will not disappear in the coming years. We will have to live – to learn to live with it, and we will be able, as we are living with many – so many other viruses.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Learning to live with it also means preparing for the next one. And Omicron was the first variant that really pierced the immunity offered by the vaccine. Do you think that every autumn we will have to prepare for a booster vaccine with COVID, just like we get a flu shot?
DR. BOURLA: I think so. And I think that’s what we’re trying to do now. First of all, we try very hard to stay ahead of the virus because, as you say, many variants come and Omicron was the first to be able to skillfully evade the immune protection we are giving. But we also know that the duration of protection does not last long. Not just the vaccine, but also the people who are getting sick. They do not receive very long lasting immune protection. If you get sick, you can get sick again next year with the same …
MARGARET BRENNAN: –like four months or so–
DR. BOURLA: Exactly, exactly. So what we’re trying to do, and we’re working hard right now, is to make not only a vaccine that protects against all variants, including Omicron, but also something that can protect for at least a year. And if we are able to achieve that, then I think it is very easy to follow and remember so that we can really get back to the way we lived before.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you’ve seen some of this data on a- in a fourth dose, a second booster injection. You think it will be necessary.
DR. BOURLA: Right now, as we’ve seen, a fourth reinforcement is needed right now. The protection you receive from the third party is good enough, in fact quite good for hospitalizations and deaths. It’s not as good against infections, but it doesn’t last long. But we’re just sending this data to the FDA and then we’ll see what the experts say outside of Pfizer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the last time you filed for booster injections with the FDA, there was confusion with the public, with the FDA saying no, it’s not necessary, and they changed their minds and said it was necessary. Can you avoid this kind of confusion this time?
DR. BOURLA: I think so. I think so. And I think right now we need to be very well coordinated, the CDC, the FDA and the industry because we all provide the American people and the world with a cohesive rather than confusing image.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the question that was number one on my list and I think for so many parents is when will the vaccine be available for these children, five years old or younger? This is the last part of the population that does not have any protection against a vaccine.
DR. BOURLA: You’re right, and I hope we have that data next month.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Next month?
DR. BOURLA: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which would put us on the road to a possible availability in May …
DR. BOURLA: Potentially in May if it works, if the answer will do everything possible to review them quickly. So we will be ready with the manufacture.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, if you look at the Omicron effect, this was the first variant that really affected kids in a measurable way, in a meaningful way, and we saw that hospitalizations were really increasing there. And I wonder, because it was the only variant that really impacted the kids. It affected when a vaccine could have been available. A two-dose vaccine could have been available, but the FDA slowed that down, he said, hopefully a three-dose figure. Do you think that making this vaccine available would have saved lives and helped children stay out of the hospital?
DR. BOURLA: First of all, I think I need to correct something. The FDA was eager to introduce it. In fact, they were the ones who asked us to present ourselves in two doses. We were a little reluctant to present two doses because we felt that all three doses were what the children would need. Finally, in reviewing the situation with them, we all agreed that it is better to wait for the three doses to come out because it is one thing to have a vaccine out there, and another to have a clear picture of the parents of all the scientists who are all okay, CDC, FDA, industry, academia, that’s right for kids. And I think the three doses will probably provide a very solid set of evidence, so everyone will agree.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you had a round trip there. I mean, it was a blow to the parents. This was very frustrating. Was it frustrating for you?
DR. BOURLA: It’s not frustrating for me, but I understand parents, which was very frustrating and it was a frustration that was caused by good intentions. Everyone was trying to see if we could save lives by sending previous data, and finally concluded that the best thing that can be done for children is how to have a complete set of data that provides a complete and transparent proof of what the vaccine can do. to children.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you don’t think it should have happened any other way?
DR. BOURLA: I think we could have handled it differently, but we’re finally in the right place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So now that we’re talking about a vaccine available for kids five and older, it’s available. But in the state of Florida, for example, its general surgeon says healthy children in this age group should not be vaccinated. This contradicts what the CDC recommends. When you hear recommendations like these, what do you think?
DR. BOURLA: I’m sad. I do not agree with this recommendation, of course, you know, the authorities have a duty to recommend, but I do not agree with this recommendation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, the specific statement was based on the data. Healthy children aged five to 17 may not benefit. Florida health authorities only recommend children with underlying conditions. Get to know this vaccine.
DR. BOURLA: I know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For healthy children, should they be protected?
DR. BOURLA: I think they should be protected.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you saw the data to say that that would make a difference, how? Because many parents are wondering with these younger age groups if it is the right choice to move forward.
DR. BOURLA: That’s the right choice. That’s what I think, and that’s what authorities around the world believe, with the exception, of course, of Florida.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Pfizer also announced that you are starting a drug trial or that you are in the process of trying a drug that would help children with COVID stay out of the hospital. Therefore, if they get sick, it could reduce the severity of the virus. This is for ages six to 17. When is it available for children? Is that before they go back to school in the fall? What should parents expect?
DR. BOURLA: It’s a studio, it’s a very big studio. It is the same treatment that is currently available for adults 18 years and older. And in fact, the results of the study showed that when you take these pills, it is a treatment for the mouth. Instead of 10 people going to the hospital, only one will go. Nine of them will not. It is a 90 percent protection approach. Studies will be driven by events. So we are going to a very large number of children and we are waiting to see how many will go to the hospital, how many want to go to the hospital. Therefore, it will depend a little on the intensity of the disease and how quickly we can recruit these children. But it will take a few months and the goal will be to open schools in the fall, yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And then you look at it for kids six and under?
DR. BOURLA: We are looking for children aged six or under, either in different doses or in different formulations. We are not about to start the study, but we are also working very hard for this population.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I should take a step back immediately and yes, I have small children, that’s why I’m asking you all this too. But a large part of the population is concerned about what is safe and what is next. When you look at the issue of pandemic preparedness, in retrospect, do you think the U.S. government should have focused more on treatments than on vaccines? How would you change the US government’s approach next time?
DR. BOURLA: Look, I think they did the right thing to focus a lot on vaccines. And by the way, it was the only one available en masse at the time. We had treatments that could only be delivered to hospitals and they had many. Now there is also oral treatment, which can prevent people from going to the hospital once they get sick. But this should be complementary to the vaccination protocol. And I think that’s exactly what the US government is doing. And in fact, this is what all governments in the world are doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the pill you’re talking about …
DR. BOURLA: –Yes–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –to keep children out of the hospital if they have COVID. Would something like this have been available to people before if there had been a Warp Speed operation for treatments like there was for vaccines?
DR. BOURLA: I think there was pretty much a Warp Speed operation for everything. It covered treatments and vaccines. It was much harder to get a treatment that was effective, that was oral. We have the antibodies that were available from the first days.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –This is intravenous–
DR. BOURLA: But these are intravenous. You really need to go to the hospital to get it. The question is how can we avoid sending people to the hospital? And once they have COVID, even before they have any symptoms or severe symptoms, if they can only take the pills and know it will be a very mild form of COVID, you stay home for a few days and you’re done.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In your book, you spend a lot of time talking about some of the conversations you’ve had with world leaders, with governments. The World Health Organization, in particular, is one of those global health institutions that the world is looking for solutions to. They have been very critical of pharmaceutical companies, especially when it comes to the issue of equity, access to vaccines. How do you plan to iron it? Because that seems to point to each other here, which it doesn’t, it’s not a last-mile problem, says the WHO. This is not a problem for the host government. Where is the role of pharmaceutical companies here?
DR. BOURLA: I think there is a unanimous acceptance by the WHO right now. I was at a meeting last week with, eh, the WHO and the WTO …
MARGARET BRENNAN: –The World Trade Organization–
DR. BOURLA: The World Trade Organization and the World Bank and all the others. And it is very clear that right now there are many vaccines eligible for everyone, which is exactly what, if you remember, I had …
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