The following is a transcript of an interview with Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin that aired on Sunday, March 20, 2022 on “Face the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: The UN human rights bureau said today that at least nine hundred civilians have been killed in Ukraine, which is probably much larger. We are now accompanied by Secretary of Defense Retired General Lloyd Austin, who has just returned from a trip to Bulgaria and Slovakia. Both NATO allies. Welcome to Face the Nation. It is a pleasure to have you here in person, sir.
US SECRETARY OF DEFENSE LLOYD AUSTIN: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You just heard horrible reports about what’s going on in Mariupol. The AP reports that a school that had hundreds of civilians was deliberately attacked. Can you confirm that?
SEC. AUSTIN: We’ve seen deliberate targeting in cities and towns and civilians over the last few weeks. And again, these would mean that you have to spend for these processes. He has not been able to achieve his goals so quickly, he wants to achieve them as quickly as he wants to achieve them. And so he’s resorting to the kind of tactics we see on display every day. And again, these would mean that you have to spend for these processes. But once again, I hat to the Ukrainian people who have fought bravely and are determined to defend their country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What you’re describing are war crimes. What a local leader in Mariupol has described is that there are residents sent to the camps. Is Russia about to take this city, which would be a strategic victory?
SEC. AUSTIN: Well, it’s hard to say. I mean, they have been, we have seen a significant effort on their part to go after this city, to go after Kyiv and other cities. They really want to start controlling the population centers, but they haven’t taken it yet. And we have seen in the past that the Ukrainians have counterattacked, used their initiative to move things on the battlefield, and have presented some major problems for the Russians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Russia also says it has so far used a hypersonic missile at least twice in Ukraine. So this is a missile that travels more than a mile per minute. It is very difficult to intercept. Does this change the game of arms?
SEC. AUSTIN: I wouldn’t see it as a game changer. I think again, the reason he resorts to using these types of weapons is because he is trying to restore some momentum. And we have seen – again, we have seen it attack towns and cities and civilians directly. We hope this continues. But I don’t think that in itself would change the game. You wonder why I would do that. Are you running out of precision-guided ammunition? Do you have absolute confidence in your ability to: the ability of your troops to restore momentum? But … but I don’t see it as a game changer. I cannot confirm or discuss whether or not he used these weapons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the U.S. assessment that is public is that Russia has about 90 percent of its combined combat power. So if they’ve lost 10 percent of their combat power in twenty-five days, can they still be effective?
SEC. AUSTIN: Well, they are … they are … today they are not effective in terms of their maneuvering forces on the ground they are …
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s right.
SEC. AUSTIN: –essentially stagnant. And it has been … it has had the effect of moving its forces to a wooden crusher. You know, the Ukrainians have continued to use their strength and they have been very effective, using the equipment we provided them, you know, and armored weapons and aircraft weapons. And again, a significant resolution on the part of the Ukrainian people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of the concerns is that if Vladimir Putin is cornered, he would increase to scale that he would use a weapon of mass destruction. Do you expect to hear more threats about nuclear weapons? Is it a real and viable option for him?
SEC. AUSTIN: I would just say that any threat of the use of a nuclear weapon, any rhetoric about the use of a nuclear weapon is very dangerous. And so I have confidence in our ability to defend ourselves and our abilities. But again, I don’t think this kind of conversation, this kind of rhetoric is useful.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hmm. But do you take it seriously?
SEC. AUSTIN: Absolutely. And, again, I am confident in our ability to stand up for ourselves and our allies and partners as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Another option for a weapon of mass destruction that the Biden administration has warned is a chemical or biological weapon. Vladimir Putin delivered this creepy speech earlier this week in which he claimed that the Pentagon supported biological programs in dozens of Ukrainian laboratories, which the Biden administration has just said is completely false information. However, China has repeated this as a point of conversation. Would using a weapon of mass destruction like this change the U.S. calculation? Is there a level of catastrophe here where the United States could not sit on the sidelines?
SEC. AUSTIN: I think if you used a chemical or biological weapon, you would see it as a significant reaction not only from the United States, but also from the world community. And again, these would mean that you have to spend for these processes. I think … I think that, as you know, participating in hypothetical is not useful here either. But I think this is a very serious step. And as you have heard our president say, we will not do it, we will not take it on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And when Vladimir Putin talks about it, do you think it’s more likely?
SEC. AUSTIN: I think what we’ve seen from the Russians in the past is that they’re raising issues and creating a pretext that if they did something in the battlefield, they could blame someone else, whether they were Ukrainians. or us, NATO.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hmm.
SEC. AUSTIN: And that could possibly be what we’re seeing today.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary of State Blinken has said that private mercenaries are being mobilized to enter Russia or to move to Ukraine by Russia. Do you see Russia sending reinforcements?
SEC. AUSTIN: We’ve heard them. We have heard about this from various sources that this is happening. We haven’t seen mercenaries appear on the battlefield, as far as I know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And there are still no reinforcements from foreign sources.
SEC. AUSTIN: No.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Moscow is attacking the United States for firing guns, you talked about all the things that change the game, you say anti-tank, stingy, the eight hundred million that the president authorized and the secretary of state went sign. . When does this equipment start arriving? And what makes the difference compared to what we offer in Ukraine?
SEC. AUSTIN: We’ve been providing this kind of equipment all along, and that allows us to offer more. In the last two weeks, we have provided equipment worth more than $ 300 million in Ukraine, and the $ 800 million that the president recently signed here is a total of more than $ 2 billion in security. the strength help we have been providing in Ukraine. I remind you that we have had coaches there since 2014, along with some of our allies. And not only did we provide them with the equipment, but they were ready to use once we provided them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The team that the Ukrainians say they want is to help close the sky, basically. These S-300 systems, the Russian-made systems that are in Eastern Europe right now, how quickly can you put them in the hands of the Ukrainians?
If we can get it, if our allies or partners have this kind of equipment available,
MARGARET BRENNAN: Slovakia says it’s ready to go.
SEC. AUSTIN: They’re ready to go. And so what we’re going to do is keep working with them and keep working with other allies and partners to not only create the conditions to offer that kind of assistance, but also, you know, work to ensure that they have the capacity to protect your heavens in the future as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, we’ll see your trip to Europe again. Mr. Secretary, thank you for your time.
SEC AUSTIN: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation, we’ll be back in a minute. Stay with us.
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