The following is the transcript of the interview with retired Lt. Col. William Swenson and retired Command Sergeant Major Matthew Williams (Ret.) that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on May 24, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined today by two Medal of Honor recipients, retired Command Sergeant Major Matt Williams and retired Lieutenant Colonel William Swenson. Both were awarded their medals for valor in battle during their service in Afghanistan, and it’s good to have you both here.
COMMAND SERGEANT MAJOR MATT WILLIAMS (RET.): Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s not often that we have guests with your background, with your experience, and we want to tap into some of your thoughts here, because it is pretty extraordinary when you read the description for the Medal of Honor. And I want to do that. It’s the highest award for military valor in action, the Congressional Medal of Honor Society describes it as representing the values of bravery, courage, sacrifice, integrity, a deep love of country and a desire to always do what is right. What does it mean to you?
LT. COLONEL WILLIAM SWENSON (RET.): One of the things about military service is there’s a universal component to it. Everyone who signs up to serve our country believes in the ultimate ideals of what we represent. As citizens, we have a free country. Being part of the military service is one of the ways to serve our country. In that service, you sign up potentially at great risk to yourself. In our cases, I think that we did nothing more than do our jobs. We were given the right training, we were given the right opportunities, but ultimately we were told that we needed to do something on that day specifically, and what set us apart is actions we did take, but ultimately there were actions that any other service member would have taken on behalf of that service.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You really believe that? Anyone else.
WILL SWENSON: I do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will, what do you think? What does this honor mean to you?
MATT WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think Will’s exactly right. It’s- it means the medal itself embodies service and sacrifice and patriotism and serving something greater than yourself, you know. And I think, you know, I think we both can say we joined the military at a time of great need. The country was in need of young men and women to serve and go fight, and in a war that was on two fronts in Iraq and Afghanistan, you know. And I chose my, my path specifically within special operations. And I was surrounded by phenomenal human beings every time we stepped out of the wire, you know, I was presented with- with an opportunity that day to serve the men to the left and right of me, and that’s what I chose to do. And I’ll echo what Will said. I don’t think that, I firmly believe that everyone I’ve served with would do the same thing if given that opportunity. And you know, the fascinating thing about the medal itself is, is our story was captured and- and that’s why we sit here today with this award around our necks, a lot- just like the 3500 other Americans that have been awarded the medal over our history. But I’ll tell you with all honesty, I believe there’s much more valor and heroism- heroism that has happened on the battlefield every single day. There’s stories that just don’t get captured. They don’t get told, and that’s what this medal actually represents. It’s not me and Will here. It’s, it’s not who, who else wears the medal today. It’s those that have never had their story told, or- or the folks that received the medal, you know, a relative picked it up at the White House in a shadow box because they never made it home. I think that’s what this medal represents, and that’s why it’s so important.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Matt, you mentioned you served with people outside the wire. What do you mean by that? Are you talking–
MATT WILLIAMS: Every time that you you know you leave your fire base, you know you whether you get into vehicles or you get into helicopters or whatever you’re going to do, you know you’re going to go out there and you’re going to face the enemy and and you have to be at peace with that. You have to understand that your training has has prepared you to be effective on the battlefield. And you have to have the trust in the men and the women to the left and right of you, that they’re going to be there when, when they- when you need them to be there, and you’ll be there for them at the same time. And that’s how, that’s how you’re the most effective in combat operations. But, you know, I think it’s more important than that, I think that’s how you’re most effective as a country. If you’re willing to serve those to the left and right, if you serve your community, you know, be a part of something bigger than yourself, then, you know, it kind of puts everything else aside. We don’t really have that much to fight about anymore, if you really think about it way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, both of you, when we looked at your backgrounds, you were both headed towards the trajectory of some kind of service before you joined the military, whether it was the State Department or, I think, law enforcement, right? Do you think you’re just sort of hard wired for that?
MATT WILLIAMS: You know, I’ll jump in. I think, you know, in a way, I think I was. You know, I like to kind of joke, I was the little boy that never actually grew up. You know, I always wanted to be a police officer or join the FBI or- or wherever my path took me. But those, those ideals, those values, were, you know, they were- they were learned over time. It’s how I was raised. You know, my father always taught me the value of hard work and integrity and being a person of, you know, trust, you know. And I think that was very important. And I understood at a young age that if you have the opportunity and the ability, you need to do something bigger than yourself, you need to look outside yourself. And to me, that was service. And, you know, and law enforcement was my form of doing that. It’s- that- that was my goal. And of course, that trajectory changed quite drastically, and I found the military. And you know, it’s something that I would still challenge everybody today, to consider the military as an option, because it’s so important, and the lessons you can learn, the things you can do, really set yourself up for great success after your service. And I think that’s something that, you know I would, I would ask most young men and women in America to consider doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you were headed towards a career, possibly as a diplomat, as I understand it. And then 9/11 happened.
WILL SWENSON: 9/11 was a transformational event for our generation. I think that many of us who had set our path towards service, we saw that there was a moment that was being presented to us that required us to stand up and do what we felt was right. Whether it was military service or otherwise, many of us did hear that call. Every generation has a transformational moment. It doesn’t require a 9/11 to understand the importance of serving one’s country. And at that time, I had people that also heard a call and they heard a call to go serve in under-privileged schools or at the National Park Service or any number of other places. But specifically for me, national defense was where we needed to have our people. It’s where I felt I was best placed, and ultimately it became the right choice.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s interesting because when we were talking about the conversation with you two, it came up that this year will mark 25 years since 9/11 and there are now 25-year-old adults walking around this country who do not have those events as part of their living memory, right? They were so small. How do you explain to that generation, what was so galvanizing for you, that made you change the entire trajectory of your life and sign up for sacrifice?
WILL SWENSON: And what I’d say to that is, and there they are, serving without that galvanizing moment. Every generation stands up to serve. Every generation hears the call. There are different–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Less than one percent of the population, now active duty. 6% have past service. It’s a smaller and smaller part of the population, but you aren’t worried about that?
WILL SWENSON: I think that the people who are being asked to serve in a national security regimen, that’s a smaller portion of our country, just because of the nature of warfare. We require a smaller military. We require different capabilities and different skills. There’s still service, though. Again, service is not specifically military. It’s universal. You can do anything to serve this nation, to serve your community and be a good citizen. But back to your point, our military service members do represent a fraction of the population and do carry a heavy burden. And this generation of 25-year-olds and younger, they didn’t need the events of 9/11, that’s part of their history. They didn’t need that moment for them to go into service. They understood well that there was something worth fighting on behalf in this country, in what our values are, and that’s why they are where they are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think, though, that there is that unifying factor right now behind service? I mean, the country feels very fractured at this moment in time, at least on this program, we have a lot of conversations about it. What do you think?
MATT WILLIAMS: You know, I think that there is the feeling, you know, I think that feeling is true and real, but I don’t think it’s as big as it seems, actually, and maybe that’s just my hope. I hope that it’s not. I hope that people can realize that we have so much to fight for and so much to be grateful for in this country. You know, I think we have a- we have a hard time. We dwell on our past quite a bit, and it’s rocky. You know, we’ve had a rocky trajectory to get to where we are today, but we’re still the greatest nation in the world, and we’re still the freest country in the world. And those are things to be celebrated, but they’re more importantly, the things to be protected and to Will’s point- and I, I just retired from military in October, and my final job was- was a command sergeant major at one of the Special Forces Qualification Course battalions. And I got to see these young men that had raised their right hand, just like I did, you know, 20 years ago, to come and join the special operations community because it was the right thing to do. And they didn’t need the extra call to service that we had- that we needed, you know, to get us across that line. They did it because it’s the right thing to do. And I think- I think, and I believe that that’s really still true and inherent in the youth of America. You know, I hope- I hope we can do a little bit better on some of the rhetoric and the way that we communicate with each other. That could obviously be a lot better. It would just be better for the country. But we have a lot to celebrate, and we have a lot to be thankful for, and we have a lot to serve for, you know. And I ask- I ask everybody, when I get the chance, you know, look, I’m not asking you to go strap on the uniform and carry a rifle into combat with the enemy, I just ask that you be a citizen worth that service, you know. And that’s my challenge to people, is- is be worth the service and sacrifice that this young, 25-year-old is willing to go- go do on your behalf. I mean, if you think about that every day, we think that these kids are over there because they believe in it, and they believe that they’re doing it for you personally. You know, I think that would kind of change our mindset a little bit and offer a little bit of relief from the rhetoric that we see so much of today.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a really profound way of thinking about Memorial Day, frankly–
MATT WILLIAMS: –Yeah, absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which will be coming up on- this…
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